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 Post subject: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:51 pm 
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Please tell me I wasn't the only one watching this. Green Bay just got screwed... even after a review the officials couldn't get the call right.

Wow.

I bet the real NFL officials are back ASAP now; no chance the league lets this circus act continue. This was your tipping point.


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:45 am 
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Yeah, it was horrible all around.

Though, that's why you KNOCK THE BALL DOWN.

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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:02 am 
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Nutsacjac wrote:
Yeah, it was horrible all around.

Though, that's why you KNOCK THE BALL DOWN.

I hate to even criticize Green Bay after that, but yeah, knocking the ball down would have avoided all of that.

I still can't believe this. But it's SO fitting this silly crap pulled by the league came back to haunt on them on a game-deciding call in a nationally-televised primetime game. Perfect storm of disaster, you couldn't have planned it better... and they deserved it.

I still feel bad for the players coaches... what a shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:41 am 
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Nutsacjac wrote:
Yeah, it was horrible all around.

Though, that's why you KNOCK THE BALL DOWN.


If you can catch it as easily as MD Jennings did, there's no reason to knock it down.

Ask Akeem Ayers how that went for him on Sunday...


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:48 am 
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That was a pretty miserable knock down effort by Ayers though. He pretty much whiffed on batting it down to the ground and it landed right in Titus Young's lap. Still, it kind of shows just how crazy some of these toss-it-up-there-and-see-what-happens scrums can be; you can have the right intention and still screw up.


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:48 am 
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Yep, that was pretty awful. As was the Pass Interference call against GB where Rice clearly was the one who was doing the interfering.


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:33 pm 
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I think everyone is seeing this wrong. IMO, Tate had his left arm on the ball from the beginning, and he got his right hand on it before Jennings hit the floor---hence, simultaneous possession. It's hard to tell where Tate's left arm is on the replays they've been showing but I'm pretty sure it's between the ball and Jennings chest. I think Jennings may have had "more" control or possession but I think it still falls under simultaneous possession. It's not a catch until Jennings hits the floor and when that happens Tate has both arms on the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:05 pm 
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I've looked at the replay plenty of times on ESPN and NFL.com. I wish NFL.com had better quality with their videos but it still looks the same to me: Jennings gets 2 hands on the ball first. Tate's right hand doesn't get there and it even "pops out" for a half second as they are going to the ground.

Image
Image
Image

Jennings had the ball clutched to his chest, Tate maybe had one arm on it (his left); I just can't see how that's a catch or simultaneous possession.

Simultaneous possession, for what it's worth, is officially defined as this:
Quote:
If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control.
This situation seems to clearly fit the latter (bolded) part of the definition.

Former NFL official and officiating supervisor Jim Daopoulos, who works for NBC now, said this about the play:
Quote:
"But look at the play,'' said Daopoulos. "Simultaneous possession is two men catching the ball at the same time. Tate sticking his left hand in there is not enough for simultaneous possession.''


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:20 pm 
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thebull wrote:
I think everyone is seeing this wrong. IMO, Tate had his left arm on the ball from the beginning, and he got his right hand on it before Jennings hit the floor---hence, simultaneous possession. It's hard to tell where Tate's left arm is on the replays they've been showing but I'm pretty sure it's between the ball and Jennings chest. I think Jennings may have had "more" control or possession but I think it still falls under simultaneous possession. It's not a catch until Jennings hits the floor and when that happens Tate has both arms on the ball.


Tate tried to rip the ball from Jennings, the ball was in Jennings' chest with both hands.

In addition, Tate blatantly pushed off to make the play, so it was offensive PI from the start.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but if there was a game that I thought was fixed, this would be it. Just way too many blatant penalties/blown calls.

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Anyone who quotes profits of a baseball club is missing the point. Under generally accepted accounting principles, I can turn a $4 million profit into a $2 million loss, and I can get every national accounting firm to agree with me. - Paul Beeston, CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Nutsacjac wrote:
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but if there was a game that I thought was fixed, this would be it. Just way too many blatant penalties/blown calls.

Kind of ironic that the officials were flag-happy but totally missed the blatant push-off by Tate on that final play.


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:51 pm 
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nmigliore wrote:
I've looked at the replay plenty of times on ESPN and NFL.com. I wish NFL.com had better quality with their videos but it still looks the same to me: Jennings gets 2 hands on the ball first. Tate's right hand doesn't get there and it even "pops out" for a half second as they are going to the ground.

Image
Image
Image

Jennings had the ball clutched to his chest, Tate maybe had one arm on it (his left); I just can't see how that's a catch or simultaneous possession.

Simultaneous possession, for what it's worth, is officially defined as this:
Quote:
If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control.
This situation seems to clearly fit the latter (bolded) part of the definition.

Former NFL official and officiating supervisor Jim Daopoulos, who works for NBC now, said this about the play:
Quote:
"But look at the play,'' said Daopoulos. "Simultaneous possession is two men catching the ball at the same time. Tate sticking his left hand in there is not enough for simultaneous possession.''


You're looking at it at the wrong moment. Jennings can't actually have possession and a pick until he hits the ground so what happens before Jennings hits the floor means nothing. At the moment Jennings hits the ground, Tate has his left arm (out of sight) on the ball and his right arm is coming over the top and touching the ball as well. It seems pretty clear to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Ridiculous finish in Seattle; Green Bay screwed over
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Nutsacjac wrote:
thebull wrote:
I think everyone is seeing this wrong. IMO, Tate had his left arm on the ball from the beginning, and he got his right hand on it before Jennings hit the floor---hence, simultaneous possession. It's hard to tell where Tate's left arm is on the replays they've been showing but I'm pretty sure it's between the ball and Jennings chest. I think Jennings may have had "more" control or possession but I think it still falls under simultaneous possession. It's not a catch until Jennings hits the floor and when that happens Tate has both arms on the ball.


Tate tried to rip the ball from Jennings, the ball was in Jennings' chest with both hands.


I'm sorry but that's just wrong. Tate's hand is between Jennings chest and the ball the whole time.


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