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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Not raining on it, just trying to be realistic about it. I wasn't very happy with the Melo trade for the Knicks either but at least we know we have him for the next 3 and a half years. The Nets just traded almost all of their assets for a very good PG who has no one to pass to, and who may leave in a year.

Knicks trade their assets and got not only a superstar in Melo, but a very good PG in Billups to add to another superstar we have in Amare.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:47 pm 
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We still have the Lakers first round pick this year (lottery protected), the Nets first in 2012, and the Rockets first in 2012 (lottery protected) as far as assets. We also will have a ton of cap room next season.

No one to pass to? How bout a 22 year old center with back to back 1,000 point seasons in his first two years in the league? How one of the top 3 point shooters all-time percentage wise? How bout himself? How bout we aren't making the playoffs this year barring some extraordinary run, so let's give Billy King some time to get players to pass to?

The new CBA could make it easier for the Nets to retain Williams as well. Possibly a franchise tag or increased compensation for signing with current team. Or maybe getting Dwight Howard will make it easier to keep Deron Williams.

Yeah, the Nets are once again players.

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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:09 pm 
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Billy King coming up on WFAN. Dude has a voice like thunder rolling down a mountain.

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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Not really a big Lopez fan, but I guess he may do better with Williams here. Those rebounding numbers from him are scary this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:47 pm 
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thebull wrote:
Not raining on it, just trying to be realistic about it. I wasn't very happy with the Melo trade for the Knicks either but at least we know we have him for the next 3 and a half years. The Nets just traded almost all of their assets for a very good PG who has no one to pass to, and who may leave in a year.

Knicks trade their assets and got not only a superstar in Melo, but a very good PG in Billups to add to another superstar we have in Amare.


Trying to equate Chauncey Billups and Deron Williams to the same level of player would be like me saying the Knicks and Nets both have "pretty good PFs" in Hump and Amare.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:40 pm 
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I'm unsure about this deal. He might not even want to be there. Even if you get a franchise tag, the guy not wanting to be there isn't the greatest thing in the world.

anyway, could turn out wonderfully.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:53 pm 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
thebull wrote:
Not raining on it, just trying to be realistic about it. I wasn't very happy with the Melo trade for the Knicks either but at least we know we have him for the next 3 and a half years. The Nets just traded almost all of their assets for a very good PG who has no one to pass to, and who may leave in a year.

Knicks trade their assets and got not only a superstar in Melo, but a very good PG in Billups to add to another superstar we have in Amare.


Trying to equate Chauncey Billups and Deron Williams to the same level of player would be like me saying the Knicks and Nets both have "pretty good PFs" in Hump and Amare.


Sorry, I wasn't insinuating they were equals. But Billups is certainly better than this Hump you speak of. Deron's what, the 2nd best PG in the league? Billups is probably something like 7th or 8th? I don't really even know who Hump is.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:57 pm 
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tom7080 wrote:
I'm unsure about this deal. He might not even want to be there. Even if you get a franchise tag, the guy not wanting to be there isn't the greatest thing in the world.

anyway, could turn out wonderfully.


I've seen this from a few Knick fans, and I find this argument funny on an, essentially, Mets board because it is the quintessential Yankee-fan crutch.

"Pedro didn't want to go to the Mets"

"Beltran won't be good for the Mets because he begged to be a Yankee"

"Johan won't be good for the Mets because he wanted the Yanks or Red Sox to trade for him"

The wonderful thing about the NBA is that it is always advantageous for the player to resign with his own team, and the universal word is that the new CBA will make it even moreso. I don't expect Deron Williams, going from a Western Conference contender to a current doormat of the East to be pumped today. The good news is they have 1.5 years to sell him, and will be able to offer him more than any other team, opening their new arena/era, and hopefully will have another big guy in there to go with he and Lopez by then. All that makes it much more likely he'll resign with the Nets rather than not...not a slam dunk, but a chance you take.

Anyway, being a Net fan, I'm realistic that no star thinks "My dream is to play in front of 1500 fans in Newark for a last place club". Just like I know that most baseball players, when they think about playing in NY, its typically not their first thought to be in Flushing. Doesn't mean you can't sell a guy, and certainly doesn't mean you can't build a winner and use that as a recruiting tool. Lets not forget what the Meadowlands looked like not too long ago vs. what the Garden looked like. Things can change very quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:17 pm 
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Deron Williams is the better overall player than Anthony and the Nets gave up less; at least John Hollinger believes so, according to his Insider column on the deal. Signing him long-term is really what could make or break the deal though, as Williams probably isn't going to be much of a factor in the Nets being contenders or not in the next year.

Anyway, I'm not going to pretend to be some basketball aficionado, as I'm honestly a casual fan at most, so I'll leave the analysis to the experts. But its definitely cool to see the Nets get a real impact player. Hopefully they can lure him into signing with them long-term; it could go a real long way in reshaping that franchise into a spot players will want to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:28 pm 
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nmigliore wrote:
Deron Williams is the better overall player than Anthony and the Nets gave up less; at least John Hollinger believes so, according to his Insider column on the deal. Signing him long-term is really what could make or break the deal though, as Williams probably isn't going to be much of a factor in the Nets being contenders or not in the next year.

Anyway, I'm not going to pretend to be some basketball aficionado, as I'm honestly a casual fan at most, so I'll leave the analysis to the experts. But its definitely cool to see the Nets get a real impact player. Hopefully they can lure him into signing with them long-term; it could go a real long way in reshaping that franchise into a spot players will want to come.


But the Knicks didn't just trade for Carmelo, they also got Billups. Of course Williams is a great player, but to say they gave up "less" than the Knicks to get him ignores that the Knicks also got a good to great player along with Carmelo.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:24 am 
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Genmet wrote:
nmigliore wrote:
Deron Williams is the better overall player than Anthony and the Nets gave up less; at least John Hollinger believes so, according to his Insider column on the deal. Signing him long-term is really what could make or break the deal though, as Williams probably isn't going to be much of a factor in the Nets being contenders or not in the next year.

Anyway, I'm not going to pretend to be some basketball aficionado, as I'm honestly a casual fan at most, so I'll leave the analysis to the experts. But its definitely cool to see the Nets get a real impact player. Hopefully they can lure him into signing with them long-term; it could go a real long way in reshaping that franchise into a spot players will want to come.


But the Knicks didn't just trade for Carmelo, they also got Billups. Of course Williams is a great player, but to say they gave up "less" than the Knicks to get him ignores that the Knicks also got a good to great player along with Carmelo.


Exactly. If the Nets also happened to get Paul Millsap or whoever would be the equivalent value of Billups in their deal than you could say they gave up less.


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 Post subject: Re: Nets get Deron Williams
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:51 am 
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MarkJohnson>You wrote:
tom7080 wrote:
I'm unsure about this deal. He might not even want to be there. Even if you get a franchise tag, the guy not wanting to be there isn't the greatest thing in the world.

anyway, could turn out wonderfully.


I've seen this from a few Knick fans, and I find this argument funny on an, essentially, Mets board because it is the quintessential Yankee-fan crutch.

"Pedro didn't want to go to the Mets"

"Beltran won't be good for the Mets because he begged to be a Yankee"

"Johan won't be good for the Mets because he wanted the Yanks or Red Sox to trade for him"

The wonderful thing about the NBA is that it is always advantageous for the player to resign with his own team, and the universal word is that the new CBA will make it even moreso. I don't expect Deron Williams, going from a Western Conference contender to a current doormat of the East to be pumped today. The good news is they have 1.5 years to sell him, and will be able to offer him more than any other team, opening their new arena/era, and hopefully will have another big guy in there to go with he and Lopez by then. All that makes it much more likely he'll resign with the Nets rather than not...not a slam dunk, but a chance you take.

Anyway, being a Net fan, I'm realistic that no star thinks "My dream is to play in front of 1500 fans in Newark for a last place club". Just like I know that most baseball players, when they think about playing in NY, its typically not their first thought to be in Flushing. Doesn't mean you can't sell a guy, and certainly doesn't mean you can't build a winner and use that as a recruiting tool. Lets not forget what the Meadowlands looked like not too long ago vs. what the Garden looked like. Things can change very quickly.
There's a monumental difference between a star player risking his entire reputation, saying, "I want to go here and I want to win a championship," and a star player being forced, due to circumstance, to play for a team that no one really expects to win or cares if they do.

Carmelo and Amare have their reputations on the line.

Williams can shrug his shoulders and say, "I'm stuck here. It's not on me."

Look at what happened when the Knicks were losing at the beginning of the season. Amare simply would not accept that, even though the rest of the Knicks did. Imo that was as much a catalyst if not the most important catalyst for the team turning things around and playing very well. In basketball, it seems that these human elements are magnified to a much greater degree than other sports. Perhaps football is similar, in that players can really "will themselves" to win. But football is much less an individual sport. One player is one of a team. The greatest running back in the NFL is nothing with a poor offensive line and no one to run behind. Basketball is much more one-on-one showdowns and about a couple players taking over a game.

Williams could show up Carmelo and the Nets could build a great team. But there's no sense of urgency or importance in this. Carmelo and Amare MUST win. And these are two players, especially Carmelo, who thrive on those situations (Carmelo = best FG% in last 10 seconds of 4th quarter of any player).


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