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 Post subject: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:38 pm 
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It hasn't gotten bitter yet, but there's a chance for this to become a real good thing for sports in New York.

Both teams are pretty good, albeit a notch below real championship-caliber. But they're maybe a rung below with cores that figure to keep them strong for some time (although the Knicks are heavy in second-tier guys who are old)

They also both have owners with the financial means and willingness to do what it takes to maintain a high talent level on the roster.

I wasn't around for the Brooklyn Dodgers-NY Giants rivalry, so I only know what I read. But I think Knicks-Nets has a chance to surpass the old Rangers-Islanders simply because more people care about the NBA.

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:41 pm 
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They'll need a good back-and-forth playoff series to really ignite the rivalry.


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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:19 am 
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thebull wrote:
They'll need a good back-and-forth playoff series to really ignite the rivalry.


Kind of weird that they're playing their last regular season matchup on January 21, but I think you're right about a playoff series getting the juices going.

Obviously, the Knicks are the far more established team, but in totally unscientific observation, I'm seeing more Nets gear here in Jersey than I've seen since the Jason Kidd Eastern champions.

It's kind of funny, the Nets left NJ, but there doesn't seem to be any resentment toward them for doing so.

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:06 pm 
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thebull wrote:
They'll need a good back-and-forth playoff series to really ignite the rivalry.


Yeah, I agree otherwise it's basically a media creation IMO.

Knicks-Heat wasn't really a rivalry when Riley went to Miami, when they fought for players the following off-season (Mourning/LJ, Hardaway/Childs/PJ) or even fighting for the Atlantic division in '97.

But once they played a competitive playoff series it was on.


(I say competitive b/c I didn't think the Net/Knick playoff in '04 was competitive AT ALL)

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Chico wrote:
But I think Knicks-Nets has a chance to surpass the old Rangers-Islanders simply because more people care about the NBA.


I wonder how the Isles-Rangers rivalry will be with the Islanders in Brooklyn. I'm not a big hockey guy but I've sort of liked the Isles some over the years and am actually pumped for that move and will probably follow them more when they're in Brooklyn.


Chico wrote:
It's kind of funny, the Nets left NJ, but there doesn't seem to be any resentment toward them for doing so.


Well, IMO if you're living in NJ and the Nets are your team I don't really know why you'd stop rooting for them when they didn't move very far (I'd assume the same with the Isles fans in LI).

I mean, our 2 NFL teams play in NJ and they haven't lost fans.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:40 pm 
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http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/brooklyn-nets/post/_/id/12182/jason-kidd-on-kevin-garnett-probably-no-back-to-backs

Quote:
"When you look at KG, probably no back-to-backs, but those are just topics right now that are being thrown around," Kidd said Friday.


At the end of next year, Bargnani, MWP, Udrih is going to turn out to be > Garnett, Pierce, Terry for a third of the money.

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:05 pm 
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The Nets have depth to fill in. AK-47, Reggie Evans, Mason Plumlee, Andray Blatche, and Mirza Teletovic all can play PF and all can fill a role when KG doesn't play.

The Nets are deep. They have a talented starting 5 and talented players on the bench.

Andrea Bargiani is the softest, marshmallow, softy, moisturizing lotion, soft-vanilla yogurt sitting on your dash with the windows up on a 95 degree day guy playing hoops. He scares me not. The Knicks needed rebounding and went out and got the worst rebounder in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:43 pm 
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the Nets are old and slow and have no one to play perimeter D.

And, while I woulda liked a better rebounding big than Bargnani/Tyler, I'm pretty sure it's going to cause some problems to keep a hand in the face of a 7 footer who shoots 35-40% from 3pt, AND pack the lane against Melo/JR. He doesn't have to be either the featured scorer or the anchor on defense in New York. He's replacing Steve Novak, not Chandler. He's gonna get more rebounds, alter more shots, get more blocks and score more points in more ways than Steve Novak.

And MWP is a premium rebounding SF

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:49 pm 
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MikeH wrote:

Andrea Bargiani is the softest, marshmallow, softy, moisturizing lotion, soft-vanilla yogurt sitting on your dash with the windows up on a 95 degree day guy playing hoops. He scares me not. The Knicks needed rebounding and went out and got the worst rebounder in the league.


He's not a good rebounder but he's going to be a huge, HUGE asset on offense. He'll stretch the floor for Melo while also having the ability to drive if people get too close to him. He's also an above-average man-to-man defender.


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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Older, more experienced teams usually play better defense. So do teams that are efficient in the half-court. The Nets should satisfy both these. The transition game is where their weakness lies. Both ends. They won't score on the break and they won't defend it.

Metta World Peace is a clown and a distraction and only carries value as a stopper. He doesn't rebound well. He can't score anymore. And he is a sociopath.

Bargnani is not a good defender. He is tall and can shoot and has creativity in his moves. That's his value. If his man shoots poorly it is because he receives help often or they are a poor offensive player. He is a weak link constantly looking to be exploited by the man he guards and the team he faces. And if the shot is missed, he will not get the rebound consistently. He is a good offensive player who has severe limits to his athleticism, defense, and rebounding.

The Knicks were a good offensive team last year. Offensive firepower comes in abundance with Melo and JR. Scoring wasn't the problem. The problem was protecting the hoop. I don't expect that to change this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Quote:
The Knicks were a good offensive team last year. Offensive firepower comes in abundance with Melo and JR. Scoring wasn't the problem. The problem was protecting the hoop. I don't expect that to change this year.


See, I think in the playoffs, actually, they had real issues scoring, and Bargnani/Udrih is a pretty solid solution. Bargnani is a tough cover for any big, and there are a number of youtube/highlight reels of him lighting up Hibbard/West because they want to pack the lane and they can't get back out to him, and Udrih excels at mid range jumpers out of the pick and roll when the big man doesn't come out to him.

Defensively, I think the Knicks sacrifice a lot to have Melo at the 4 because he's a small forward as a rebounder. But the addition of MWP gives you Shumpert/MWP/Chandler as excellent defenders/rebounders. Chandler was hurt in the playoffs and not his usual backtap/20 boards self, and Shumpert wasn't fully healthy until the playoffs, so I worry more about the boards than I do about the defense. Smith/Shump/MWP/Melo/Chandler is gonna be a tough unit to score on and can really spread the floor and K-Mart can play some d as well if you need to go bigger. Melo will just need to commit to going to the glass. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:20 am 
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MikeH wrote:

Bargnani is not a good defender. He is tall and can shoot and has creativity in his moves. That's his value. If his man shoots poorly it is because he receives help often or they are a poor offensive player. He is a weak link constantly looking to be exploited by the man he guards and the team he faces. And if the shot is missed, he will not get the rebound consistently. He is a good offensive player who has severe limits to his athleticism, defense, and rebounding.


It may be the common perception that Bargnani can't defend but it's not based in reality. He is not a good help defender but he IS a good man-to-man defender.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/17/the-inbounds-the-pierre-bargnani-defensive-mirror/


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