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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:59 pm 
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Darren Collison is a good offensive point guard. Can't stay in front of a door but he has a handle and shoots the ball well. Quick as a stick, too.

Elephant come forward, now. Iman Shumpert isn't good. I'll buy his defense, sell the rest. His offense is not to be relied on. Can't finish. Sweet flattop gone, where's the earning of his keep? He would do better on a team with build to defend.

The Knicks should embrace Melo ball. Should have been done long ago. This preference needed be set in motion at his acquisition. If Melo is on your team, play fast and with players creative in space. Mostly forget the defensive side of the ball positions 1-4. Make shots. If you score more, you win. Offense. If Shumpert can return an offensive point in trade, do it. Melo being fed the ball is the best Melo.

A team's strength should be highlighted. After that divergent NBA thought and team construct. There is thought that since Melo lacks on the defensive end, the team should have defensive players around him. To this, loud I emote, "Ehh." Protecting the rim is key, this I agree with. A defensive center is probably necessary when playing Melo ball and Ty Chandler serves. The rest, however, should score for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Worry only about their next shot. Hardaway is what I picture. Collison would fit. Ray Felton is horrible on both ends, naturally, he gone. The Knicks need players who know what to do offensively. JR Smith has an enemy and his name is JR Smith. If he ever bests his foe, JR can play this brand. In fact, it's like it was made for him. Collison, Hardaway, JR, Melo, Chandler is a start. Again, ideally the franchise would have identified this WHEN YOU TRADE FOR MELO -- AKA MR. NO. 1 CHUCKER, AKA THE WORLD-FAMOUS MAN WITH NO-PASS. I fear the Knicks are sapping Melo.

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:33 pm 
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MikeH wrote:
Iman Shumpert isn't good. I'll buy his defense, sell the rest.


To be honest, he gained that rep (deservedly) his rookie year but he hasn't been more than an average defender for the most part ever since.

MikeH wrote:
The Knicks should embrace Melo ball. Should have been done long ago. This preference needed be set in motion at his acquisition. If Melo is on your team, play fast and with players creative in space. Mostly forget the defensive side of the ball positions 1-4. Make shots. If you score more, you win. Offense. If Shumpert can return an offensive point in trade, do it. Melo being fed the ball is the best Melo.


I agree although they weren't going anywhere with that gameplan but without better personel.

Woody lost the Indy series the second he changed up to the bigger lineup. Not because he could or couldn't win (either way big or small) but because he showed indecision which comes off as lacking confidence. But I think he thought the team was built to play Miami but would struggle against a bigger team like Indiana. So maybe best case they could win 2 games against Miami if they could get past Indiana, in the end it wouldn't mean much because the team isn't good enough.

MikeH wrote:
A team's strength should be highlighted. After that divergent NBA thought and team construct. There is thought that since Melo lacks on the defensive end, the team should have defensive players around him. To this, loud I emote, "Ehh." Protecting the rim is key, this I agree with. A defensive center is probably necessary when playing Melo ball and Ty Chandler serves.



He doesn't get much criticism (probably because he has a ring) but Tyson's been a big disappointment dating back to late last year and the playoffs. It's almost as though Amare and Bargs have rubbed off on him when we where hoping it would be the other way around. At times he doesn't even challenge penetrators which is mind boggling.

MikeH wrote:
The rest, however, should score for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Worry only about their next shot. Hardaway is what I picture. Collison would fit. Ray Felton is horrible on both ends, naturally, he gone. The Knicks need players who know what to do offensively. JR Smith has an enemy and his name is JR Smith. If he ever bests his foe, JR can play this brand.


There are a few guys who can score some but they are not efficient which is key. Especially with a volume scorer as the lead man. Yes, JR Smith has talent. He's also been a journeyman of sorts if you track his career with the draft and trade before he even played a game in the league. At some point you have to realize the guy is what he is and I did not want him back, at all....OK, a short 2 yr deal would have been fine but 3 with a player option and his scrub brother on the team was appalling IMO.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:22 pm 
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Daaaarryyl wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
The NBA official twitter account was agreeing that Felton stinks and the Knicks trade target also stunk?



Collison is not an upgrade worth giving up literally any asset was the point of the tweet.

IE The Knicks need to understand that as bad as Felton has been they should not be trying to acquire Collison.

A real dig at their utter incompetence is the thought that they were looking to acquire Jeremy Lin and using assets to do so. With that balloon payment they refused to pay, coming up in 2015!!!!

Absolutely RIDICULOUS organization. Failures from the top down.


I can't change teams but man the Knicks make it tough....


I was literally just laughing at the official NBA twitter account weighing in on a tweet critical of the Knicks with an "Amen." Wasn't meaning to go much deeper than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:32 pm 
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metswiki wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
I doubt there is anyone not wearing orange and blue who would call Pierce and MWP a toss-up. I mean, thats like absurd.

Ditto Bargnani and KG.

You wanna argue Udrih vs. Terry I guess thats a debate, but its fairly inconsequential insofar as the successes of each franchise. I definitely don't agree with the definitive statement you conclude on, but THATS at least a toss-up.

I mean, come on re: Bargnani being the best of the lot: basketball-reference attempts to quantify win-shares much like WAR for baseball.

Bargnani, FOR HIS CAREER, has 16.3 win shares. He was worth 0.1 win shares last year. Has never had more than 4.2 in a season.

Even as they get older, Garnett and Pierce, over the last 5 years together don't have a single season under 5.6 win shares.


8)

Quote:
Bargnani, a 7-footer from Italy known for his shooting rather than his tough play or fighting skill, was clearly the aggressor. A few minutes later, his trash-talking of Garnett after a 3-pointer was enough for Referee Joey Crawford to issue him a second technical foul, ending his night early. Bargnani was treated to a standing ovation by his teammates as he walked off the court.

Surprisingly, Garnett, often the instigator throughout his career, seemed less intense than Bargnani, who seemed to get in Garnett’s head.

For long stretches of the game, he seemed every bit as much of a problem as any of the team’s emergency fill-ins, struggling to guard Bargnani and Amar’e Stoudemire, players he has dominated before in his career.

Once a defensive stalwart in Minnesota and Boston, the 37-year-old Garnett, a veteran of 19 seasons, has begun to show his age. Coming into the game, his defensive rating of 103 points allowed per 100 possessions was the worst he had recorded since he was 21. Offensively, things have been little better; his 11.1 player efficiency rating is less than half of what he was capable of during his prime.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/sport ... .html?_r=0


Do we want to revisit any of these now?

Metta and Beno released. Air Bargs doing his best work of the year by not playing.

Not that AK, Pierce and Garnett have lived up to expectations but boy they have been a heck of a lot better than that troika.


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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:56 am 
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No argument. They all stink. :)

Really disappointed that the Knicks couldn't at least turn MWP and Udrih into some 2nd round picks. The whole season has been a farce.

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 Post subject: Re: Knicks-Nets rivalry
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:51 pm 
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I'm just a casual basketball fan (Nets), so I admittedly rarely watch the Knicks. But I tuned in last night near the end of the 3rd quarter, and goodness what a debacle after being up 71-57. Melo exited with the team up double digits after a foul and re-entered in the early 4th quarter trailing. They ended up losing. The rest of that team is so hard to watch.


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