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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:09 am 
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Marian Hossa and Sidney Crosby will form a great duo in Pittsburgh. I like the go-for-it mentality. Conklin has shown that he can get hot and steal a game or two. Good stuff from them, although Esposito will be a good one and he's tough to give up.

Cristobal Huet was a good pickup for the Capitals. A motivated Olaf Kolzig is bad for other teams. And Huet will be more than solid in his share of starts. Sasha and Sergei will also make an interesting 2/3rds of a line. Will Ovechkin's youthful inspiration rub off on Fedorov? Or will Sergei convert Sasha to the darkside? More to come...

I like the Flames lack of movement on deadline day. Any deal would hinder any chance of us re-signing Langkow and Juice in the offseason. Acquiring Jim Vandermeer on January 20th was a solid move, but nothing spectacular. Darryl Sutter was quiet and I like it.

Al Montoya is going to make a good goalie for someone someday. Going to Phoenix I'm not sure if he will get too much playing time behind Bryzgalov. When he gets a fair shake at starting, he's going to turn heads. And the day will eventually come when he's between the pipes for Team USA.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:19 am 
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Prospectus wrote:
Is Christian Backman worth an Al Montoya or vice versa?

IMO, no way. I would take Montoya and his potential every day of the week over a dime a dozen d-man like Backman, backman is no better then a 4th or 5th D-man, while Montoya has the potential to be a #1 goalie in this league.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:55 pm 
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Softwhere wrote:
Prospectus wrote:
Is Christian Backman worth an Al Montoya or vice versa?

IMO, no way. I would take Montoya and his potential every day of the week over a dime a dozen d-man like Backman, backman is no better then a 4th or 5th D-man, while Montoya has the potential to be a #1 goalie in this league.


Those were two separate deals though. The Rangers got Backman for a 4th rounder in next year's draft. Say what you want about Montoya and his potential but he's had a bad year, he's oft-injured and his trade value had diminished a lot in the past year. Now in terms of what they actually received for Montoya: I like Freddie Sjostrom, who I think can add a little offense to the 4th line; Josh Gratton is a scrapper who could fill in for Orr if he doesn't recover from his upper body injury; and David LeNeveu is a goaltender who has just as much upside as Montoya IMO, not to metion Rangers' goalie coach Benoit Allaire raves about him. I think you guys are all overrating someone who had become the #2 goalie on his AHL team this season.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:45 pm 
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aeroclearica wrote:
Softwhere wrote:
Prospectus wrote:
Is Christian Backman worth an Al Montoya or vice versa?

IMO, no way. I would take Montoya and his potential every day of the week over a dime a dozen d-man like Backman, backman is no better then a 4th or 5th D-man, while Montoya has the potential to be a #1 goalie in this league.


Those were two separate deals though. The Rangers got Backman for a 4th rounder in next year's draft. Say what you want about Montoya and his potential but he's had a bad year, he's oft-injured and his trade value had diminished a lot in the past year. Now in terms of what they actually received for Montoya: I like Freddie Sjostrom, who I think can add a little offense to the 4th line; Josh Gratton is a scrapper who could fill in for Orr if he doesn't recover from his upper body injury; and David LeNeveu is a goaltender who has just as much upside as Montoya IMO, not to metion Rangers' goalie coach Benoit Allaire raves about him. I think you guys are all overrating someone who had become the #2 goalie on his AHL team this season.

I know they were seperate deals, I was just answering his question.

As far the trade involving Montoya, I think it was unneccesary and Sather got ripped off. The biggest reason is because LeNeveu does not have anywhere near the same upside that Montoya has.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:53 pm 
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Say what you want about Montoya and his potential but he's had a bad year, he's oft-injured and his trade value had diminished a lot in the past year.


Even if this is the case (which I don't buy his diminished value), why would you trade someone with tremendous upside for spare parts? I don't buy David LeNeveu having near the upside that Montoya has. Of course the Rangers goalie coach will say he likes him. What's he supposed to say, "Uhhh, we got this clown. He's no good."? LeNeveu has not shown he deserves to be in the NHL at all, and is almost two years older than Montoya.

BTW, Montoya still managed a .908 save percentage and a 16-8-3 record for Hartford this year despite him being in the midst of a "bad year".

I think Al needed a change of scenery more than anything. Hank blocking him was not a good situation for either party and I respect the Rangers giving Al a chance somewhere else. Only problem for Al is I do not think Phoenix is too good for him either. Time will have to tell on this one.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:14 pm 
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MikeH wrote:
Quote:
Say what you want about Montoya and his potential but he's had a bad year, he's oft-injured and his trade value had diminished a lot in the past year.


Even if this is the case (which I don't buy his diminished value), why would you trade someone with tremendous upside for spare parts? I don't buy David LeNeveu having near the upside that Montoya has. Of course the Rangers goalie coach will say he likes him. What's he supposed to say, "Uhhh, we got this clown. He's no good."? LeNeveu has not shown he deserves to be in the NHL at all, and is almost two years older than Montoya.

BTW, Montoya still managed a .908 save percentage and a 16-8-3 record for Hartford this year despite him being in the midst of a "bad year".

I think Al needed a change of scenery more than anything. Hank blocking him was not a good situation for either party and I respect the Rangers giving Al a chance somewhere else. Only problem for Al is I do not think Phoenix is too good for him either. Time will have to tell on this one.


Maybe you trade a goalie with "tremendous upside" for spare parts because that's all you can get? Just because you think he has a future as a #1 goaltender somewhere doesn't mean that GMs around the league do. What does it say that the one GM that Sather got to bite was none other than former Assistant GM of the Rangers, Don Maloney. Maybe LeNeveu doesn't have the potential that Montoya does, but who's to say that Al's shown that he deserves to play in the NHL? Now I agree that a change of scenery doesn't hurt and maybe he turns into the goalie that you think he will, but there is no question that his value has diminished from say at least a year ago. Why else would the Rangers only net a 4th liner, a career AHL'er and a goalie who might never sniff the NHL, when last year he was the centerpiece in packages for top fowards.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:19 am 
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aeroclearica wrote:
MikeH wrote:
Quote:
Say what you want about Montoya and his potential but he's had a bad year, he's oft-injured and his trade value had diminished a lot in the past year.


Even if this is the case (which I don't buy his diminished value), why would you trade someone with tremendous upside for spare parts? I don't buy David LeNeveu having near the upside that Montoya has. Of course the Rangers goalie coach will say he likes him. What's he supposed to say, "Uhhh, we got this clown. He's no good."? LeNeveu has not shown he deserves to be in the NHL at all, and is almost two years older than Montoya.

BTW, Montoya still managed a .908 save percentage and a 16-8-3 record for Hartford this year despite him being in the midst of a "bad year".

I think Al needed a change of scenery more than anything. Hank blocking him was not a good situation for either party and I respect the Rangers giving Al a chance somewhere else. Only problem for Al is I do not think Phoenix is too good for him either. Time will have to tell on this one.


Maybe you trade a goalie with "tremendous upside" for spare parts because that's all you can get? Just because you think he has a future as a #1 goaltender somewhere doesn't mean that GMs around the league do. What does it say that the one GM that Sather got to bite was none other than former Assistant GM of the Rangers, Don Maloney. Maybe LeNeveu doesn't have the potential that Montoya does, but who's to say that Al's shown that he deserves to play in the NHL? Now I agree that a change of scenery doesn't hurt and maybe he turns into the goalie that you think he will, but there is no question that his value has diminished from say at least a year ago. Why else would the Rangers only net a 4th liner, a career AHL'er and a goalie who might never sniff the NHL, when last year he was the centerpiece in packages for top fowards.


I guess I just don't understand why they traded him. I think if you hold onto him, you would be able to get more in the future. He appeared to have more value for the Rangers if he stayed a Ranger. Especially when this was all they could get, because they didn't get much.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:19 am 
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MikeH wrote:
I guess I just don't understand why they traded him. I think if you hold onto him, you would be able to get more in the future. He appeared to have more value for the Rangers if he stayed a Ranger. Especially when this was all they could get, because they didn't get much.

Mike this is Sather we are talking about. Outside of the Avery deal, the only thing Sather knows how to do is spend money. How else do explain giving two good-very good players Superstar type money?

Give it another couple years and Sather will have this team back in the same place as it was before the lockout. In fact, if it wasn't for the lockout and the salary cap that came as a result, the Rangers would still be the Knicks of the NHL.

BTW, I do have to give Sather credit for bringing in Tom Renney, who I think is a very good coach.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Softwhere wrote:
MikeH wrote:
I guess I just don't understand why they traded him. I think if you hold onto him, you would be able to get more in the future. He appeared to have more value for the Rangers if he stayed a Ranger. Especially when this was all they could get, because they didn't get much.

Mike this is Sather we are talking about. Outside of the Avery deal, the only thing Sather knows how to do is spend money. How else do explain giving two good-very good players Superstar type money?

Give it another couple years and Sather will have this team back in the same place as it was before the lockout. In fact, if it wasn't for the lockout and the salary cap that came as a result, the Rangers would still be the Knicks of the NHL.

BTW, I do have to give Sather credit for bringing in Tom Renney, who I think is a very good coach.


Because that's what the market has become now for marquee free agents. So do you actually think that the Rangers will be a bad team in a couple of years? The Rangers have built a strong core of young, inexpensive players (Dubinsky, Staal, Dawes, Callahan) and have several more waiting in the wings (Sanguinetti, Anisimov, Cherepanov). Sather really hasn't gone the way of the past, outside of this past offseason, and that's a big reason why this team started winning again. Say what you want about the two contracts given to Gomez and Drury, but he essentially has this team set up for the future with a goaltender and 2 top-line centers. BTW, the deals Sather made to get Jagr, Rozsival and Blair Betts were all moves that are comparable, if not better, than the Avery deal.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:09 pm 
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aeroclearica wrote:
Softwhere wrote:
MikeH wrote:
I guess I just don't understand why they traded him. I think if you hold onto him, you would be able to get more in the future. He appeared to have more value for the Rangers if he stayed a Ranger. Especially when this was all they could get, because they didn't get much.

Mike this is Sather we are talking about. Outside of the Avery deal, the only thing Sather knows how to do is spend money. How else do explain giving two good-very good players Superstar type money?

Give it another couple years and Sather will have this team back in the same place as it was before the lockout. In fact, if it wasn't for the lockout and the salary cap that came as a result, the Rangers would still be the Knicks of the NHL.

BTW, I do have to give Sather credit for bringing in Tom Renney, who I think is a very good coach.


Because that's what the market has become now for marquee free agents. So do you actually think that the Rangers will be a bad team in a couple of years? The Rangers have built a strong core of young, inexpensive players (Dubinsky, Staal, Dawes, Callahan) and have several more waiting in the wings (Sanguinetti, Anisimov, Cherepanov). Sather really hasn't gone the way of the past, outside of this past offseason, and that's a big reason why this team started winning again. Say what you want about the two contracts given to Gomez and Drury, but he essentially has this team set up for the future with a goaltender and 2 top-line centers. BTW, the deals Sather made to get Jagr, Rozsival and Blair Betts were all moves that are comparable, if not better, than the Avery deal.

I agree that Jagr was a pretty good deal, but it was strictly a salary dump by Washington, Jagr at the time was making $10m p/ year. Rozsival was a minor league free agent, not a trade. Blair Betts is hardly comparable to Avery, he is a career 4th line guy who every team has at least two like.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:20 pm 
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Softwhere wrote:
aeroclearica wrote:
Softwhere wrote:
MikeH wrote:
I guess I just don't understand why they traded him. I think if you hold onto him, you would be able to get more in the future. He appeared to have more value for the Rangers if he stayed a Ranger. Especially when this was all they could get, because they didn't get much.

Mike this is Sather we are talking about. Outside of the Avery deal, the only thing Sather knows how to do is spend money. How else do explain giving two good-very good players Superstar type money?

Give it another couple years and Sather will have this team back in the same place as it was before the lockout. In fact, if it wasn't for the lockout and the salary cap that came as a result, the Rangers would still be the Knicks of the NHL.

BTW, I do have to give Sather credit for bringing in Tom Renney, who I think is a very good coach.


Because that's what the market has become now for marquee free agents. So do you actually think that the Rangers will be a bad team in a couple of years? The Rangers have built a strong core of young, inexpensive players (Dubinsky, Staal, Dawes, Callahan) and have several more waiting in the wings (Sanguinetti, Anisimov, Cherepanov). Sather really hasn't gone the way of the past, outside of this past offseason, and that's a big reason why this team started winning again. Say what you want about the two contracts given to Gomez and Drury, but he essentially has this team set up for the future with a goaltender and 2 top-line centers. BTW, the deals Sather made to get Jagr, Rozsival and Blair Betts were all moves that are comparable, if not better, than the Avery deal.

I agree that Jagr was a pretty good deal, but it was strictly a salary dump by Washington, Jagr at the time was making $10m p/ year. Rozsival was a minor league free agent, not a trade. Blair Betts is hardly comparable to Avery, he is a career 4th line guy who every team has at least two like.


Okay I was definitely wrong about Rozi, but the Chris Simon-Blair Betts deal surely doesn't get enough credit. I disagree that he's not comparable to Avery, because his value goes far behind the statistics. He's the best defensive forward on the team, the best PK'er, best faceoff man, and he's generally in the league leaders in blocked shots every year. You're right that every team has a Blair Betts, because every team needs one. He's the quintessential blue-collar guy, who virtually goes unnoticed because he centers two of worst offensive players in the league in Hollweg and Orr.

But back to the question I posed earlier.

Quote:
So do you actually think that the Rangers will be a bad team in a couple of years?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:44 am 
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Hey, hey, hey. Let's not bring Blair Betts into this. I have a soft spot for him.

:lol:

And the trade worked out well for the Flames too. Simon was a good enforcer for us and I do not think Betts would have gotten any playing time in Calgary.

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