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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:20 am 
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Draft Pick

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:07 pm
Posts: 18
GMJ? Oh, Great Gulay!! I'll see you, and I'll raise you Alejandro de Aza.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:43 am 
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:17 pm
Posts: 7319
BastardsonofMr.Met wrote:
GMJ? Oh, Great Gulay!! I'll see you, and I'll raise you Alejandro de Aza.



Hi

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:13 am 
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Legend of NYFS

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Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
GMJ was a signed for 2 million over 2 years. Yes, he stunk but it wasn't a crazy gamble. DeAza was actually solid the year(s) before we signed him, mets didn't think they could sign Cespedes, so they signed DeAza.

Both moves had a degree of logic to them and really aren't examples of mis-management.

(waits to get trashed for saying the above).

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Why is it a bad thing to lose touch with reality? Have you seen reality lately? It's terrible. - Stephen Colbert.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:09 pm 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
GMJ was a signed for 2 million over 2 years. Yes, he stunk but it wasn't a crazy gamble. DeAza was actually solid the year(s) before we signed him, mets didn't think they could sign Cespedes, so they signed DeAza.

Both moves had a degree of logic to them and really aren't examples of mis-management.

(waits to get trashed for saying the above).



I'm not going to trash you but you aren't giving the full story. They RUSHED out to sign De Aza (12/22) as a replacement for Cespedes. He was not good enough of a player where there was any need to do so. It was absurd.

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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Gambles don't have to do with money all the time. Thats why I cringe every time so crappy player is signed with low $$'s and called "low risk." $$ risk is only the owner's risk. The teams risk is playing crappy players.

So when GMJ is brought in - I don't care if he is paying the Mets to play - and given a starting job - for however short it lasts - thats high risk because he sucks, and he's hurting your team.

Alejandro de Aza, as I argued from the jump, was never good. He alternated between passable and a AAA veteran. SO however cheap he may have been, the plan to actually use him in CF in 2016 was absolutely horrific, and would've absolutely derailed that team. Thats huge risk. The fact that we still wasted an entire season and 250 some-odd PAs on that guy means it was a horribly misguided signing. The Mets would've undoubtedly been better off had they not signed him, and his salary kept him on the team way longer than his performance justified. Bad signing. No reason to have nuance here.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:01 pm 
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dragonfly wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
What year did we have GMJ and Mike Jacobs in the OD lineup?

I’m getting a decidedly THAT vibe when looking at Adrian Gonzalez and Ascab and Reyes and all that.


Must have been the year Carlos Delgado spurned the Mets to sign with the Marlins.


Na, that was Ike's rookie year when they kept him at AAA and let Jacobs and Tatis platoon to start the season IIRC. 2010, I think.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 12:17 pm
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Daaaarryyl wrote:
dragonfly wrote:
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
What year did we have GMJ and Mike Jacobs in the OD lineup?

I’m getting a decidedly THAT vibe when looking at Adrian Gonzalez and Ascab and Reyes and all that.


Must have been the year Carlos Delgado spurned the Mets to sign with the Marlins.


Na, that was Ike's rookie year when they kept him at AAA and let Jacobs and Tatis platoon to start the season IIRC. 2010, I think.


Wow I forgot they brought him back. I hardly even remember that. Weren't they trying to push back the arbitration clock on Ike Davis? How did that work out, I forget?


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:45 pm 
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And I actually forgot we had GMJ when he was young.

For a sip of coffee...


Yeah, they used the excuse of having Cris Carter, Jacobs and Tatis to cover 1B that spring although everyone assumed it was about starting Ike's clock.

Ike and Carter didn't make the team IIRC and Jerry Manuel laughed when asked about the 1B position.

Then he spoke about Jacobs and laughed and then talked up Tatis and laughed again...


Also remember Pagan getting little playing time because of GMJ and also that a reliever named Fernando Nieve, pretty decent stuff, was used like 7 times in 9 days.

And Jerry laughed about that too...

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 am
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Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
Metro2007 wrote:
LTKfRGM wrote:
GMJ was a signed for 2 million over 2 years. Yes, he stunk but it wasn't a crazy gamble. DeAza was actually solid the year(s) before we signed him, mets didn't think they could sign Cespedes, so they signed DeAza.

Both moves had a degree of logic to them and really aren't examples of mis-management.

(waits to get trashed for saying the above).



I'm not going to trash you but you aren't giving the full story. They RUSHED out to sign De Aza (12/22) as a replacement for Cespedes. He was not good enough of a player where there was any need to do so. It was absurd.



So many ways to look at this, but if they'd spent more on a better player (not sure what OFs were on the market in the 2015/16 off season, I recall there were quite a few overpriced ones). Then the mets don't resign Cespedes. It turned out to be throwing away 7 million but I still don't think it was an awful move at the time. Certainly not absurd. There's stuff to get on the Wilpons and the mets about, I don't think signing a guy early is one of them.

Sure, in hindsight they should have waited, but hindsight isn't available at the time.

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Why is it a bad thing to lose touch with reality? Have you seen reality lately? It's terrible. - Stephen Colbert.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:28 am 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
So many ways to look at this, but if they'd spent more on a better player (not sure what OFs were on the market in the 2015/16 off season, I recall there were quite a few overpriced ones). Then the mets don't resign Cespedes. It turned out to be throwing away 7 million but I still don't think it was an awful move at the time. Certainly not absurd. There's stuff to get on the Wilpons and the mets about, I don't think signing a guy early is one of them.

Sure, in hindsight they should have waited, but hindsight isn't available at the time.


There's no hindsight here. The only way you squint at de Aza's '13-'15 and see a starter is if you squint so hard you close your eyes.

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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:07 pm
Posts: 18
Been reading the Frazier love. At first I didn't care for him, because of the low average, but I'm starting to warm. Didn't know he had a decent glove, and has a good OBP. What are the odds he's using us to get the Spankees to bite?


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 Post subject: Re: Who's on Third?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 am
Posts: 13152
Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
BastardsonofMr.Met wrote:
Been reading the Frazier love. At first I didn't care for him, because of the low average, but I'm starting to warm. Didn't know he had a decent glove, and has a good OBP. What are the odds he's using us to get the Spankees to bite?


He's got a good d'war, but I've heard people say that he's slow and not a plus defender at 3rd. I'm not sure whether to believe the b-ref numbers or the people who say that about him, but I like his bat and I like the walks/power combo. Even if his range isn't great, he's got a low error rate and Rosario has plus range, so together they should be fine.

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Why is it a bad thing to lose touch with reality? Have you seen reality lately? It's terrible. - Stephen Colbert.


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