Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:18 pm
Blue Chipper
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:15 am Posts: 365
TomInNC wrote:
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
This should have happened years ago. As for others, it’s hard to justify retiring anyone who played fewer than 10 years with the Mets.
You mean like Piazza?
I said it is hard to justify, not impossible. I'm ok with Piazza, but he meant more to the team than just his numbers. Typically, retiring a number for a guy who was only with the team for 5-7 years requires that they do something historic. You can give a player a plaque and enshrine him into the team hall of fame without retiring his number.
And as far as Koos goes, if the team had any offense at all in the 70's his HoF credentials would be as good as lot of guys who are already in there. Its laughable that he had 4 losing seasons posting the numbers that he did. The only thing that Sutton and Mussina had on Koosman were better teams behind them.
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Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:28 pm
Franchise Player
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:46 pm Posts: 3928
Quote:
Asked whether the retirement of Koosman's number means the Mets will be retiring other numbers in the future, Wilpon said "we have a plan to catch up."
Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 pm
Practically A Wilpon
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm Posts: 9407
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
This should have happened years ago. As for others, it’s hard to justify retiring anyone who played fewer than 10 years with the Mets.
You mean like Piazza?
I said it is hard to justify, not impossible. I'm ok with Piazza, but he meant more to the team than just his numbers. Typically, retiring a number for a guy who was only with the team for 5-7 years requires that they do something historic. You can give a player a plaque and enshrine him into the team hall of fame without retiring his number.
And as far as Koos goes, if the team had any offense at all in the 70's his HoF credentials would be as good as lot of guys who are already in there. Its laughable that he had 4 losing seasons posting the numbers that he did. The only thing that Sutton and Mussina had on Koosman were better teams behind them.
You don't think Hernandez was as important to the Mets winning a World Series as what other considered players have done for the team? Then add in his "icon" status with the fans and years with the team as a broadcaster?
Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:06 pm
Legend of NYFS
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:09 am Posts: 14403 Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
This should have happened years ago. As for others, it’s hard to justify retiring anyone who played fewer than 10 years with the Mets.
You mean like Piazza?
I said it is hard to justify, not impossible. I'm ok with Piazza, but he meant more to the team than just his numbers. Typically, retiring a number for a guy who was only with the team for 5-7 years requires that they do something historic. You can give a player a plaque and enshrine him into the team hall of fame without retiring his number.
And as far as Koos goes, if the team had any offense at all in the 70's his HoF credentials would be as good as lot of guys who are already in there. Its laughable that he had 4 losing seasons posting the numbers that he did. The only thing that Sutton and Mussina had on Koosman were better teams behind them.
Moose had an 82 career war and 14 3 war seasons.
Sutton had a 66.7 career war and he was boosted by playing for good teams and his 324 wins. He pitched for 23 seasons, well past his prime. Sutton had 9 3-war seasons and 6 more between 2.4 and 2.9. Sutton got votes for cy young 5 times and finished first in the league in WHIP 4 times.
Koos had a 53.6 career war, 8 3 war seasons and 4 more between 2.1 and 2.9, he finished first in FIP once and first in K's per 9 once. He got cy young votes twice.
I think Moose 16 quality seasons in an 18 year career and his 88 WAR puts him in a different category and a lock for the Hall.
Sutton and Koos are close, but the difference there is that Sutton had the longevity to get 300 wins. I agree with you that if Sutton had been a met and gotten 30 fewer wins as a result . . . maybe he doesn't see the Hall. I think Koos is a tough case for the hall no matter what team you put him on.
On the Wilpon "We're catching up" - I'm curous who's going to be next. David Wright is, I think, a lock, but who are the others?
_________________ Go Mets. Good luck Zach Wheeler. You're the only Phillie I like.
Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:42 pm
Practically A Wilpon
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm Posts: 9407
In order of deserving an honor like this from the Mets:
Wright Hernandez Carter Beltran Kranepool Jones Matlack Agee Grote Every other member of the 69 Mets The 1986 rotation (less Gooden) Santana Orosco Knight Cone The great defensive infield Delgado Todd Pratt Endy Leiter Franco Kingman Jefferies McReynolds Every member of the 1962 team Strawberry Craig Swan Felix Milan John Maine Ed Hearn Roger McDowell Rickey Henderson Todd Zeile Neil Allen Nolan Ryan Joe Foy Jim Fregosi Gooden
Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:08 pm
NYFS Staff
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:10 pm Posts: 504 Location: South Korea
They've sort of semi-retired some numbers already like 8, 17, and 24 (until Cano), so I'd guess maybe those will be near the top of the list, plus Wright.
Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:20 pm
Exec. VP Baseball Operations
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:55 am Posts: 8730
TomInNC wrote:
In order of deserving an honor like this from the Mets:
Wright Hernandez Carter Beltran Kranepool Jones Matlack Agee Grote Every other member of the 69 Mets The 1986 rotation (less Gooden) Santana Orosco Knight Cone The great defensive infield Delgado Todd Pratt Endy Leiter Franco Kingman Jefferies McReynolds Every member of the 1962 team Strawberry Craig Swan Felix Milan John Maine Ed Hearn Roger McDowell Rickey Henderson Todd Zeile Neil Allen Nolan Ryan Joe Foy Jim Fregosi Gooden
I admit Ed Hearn and Gooden is a flip of the coin but I have to be honest, I think I go with Dwight there.
_________________
MarkJohnson>You wrote:
Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:
"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."
But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?
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