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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:54 pm 
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metsrule0423 wrote:
There's a lesson to be learned here, and deGrom shouldn't get killed by the fans for having learned it.


If this is the direction that we're going, and if he truly believes he should have his innings limited to allow him to get a better paycheck in Free Agency, then should the Mets be allowed to re-write his contract for this year to make up for his demand of fewer innings?

I personally don't think this is going in this direction, and I'm a huge DeGrom fan.

I'm just curious as to the hypothetical contractual situation. A pitcher is paid by the team to perform. Unless there is a long-term contract in play, why should the team allow the player to limit his innings if it doesn't benefit them?


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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:26 pm 
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bklyndave69 wrote:
metsrule0423 wrote:
There's a lesson to be learned here, and deGrom shouldn't get killed by the fans for having learned it.


If this is the direction that we're going, and if he truly believes he should have his innings limited to allow him to get a better paycheck in Free Agency, then should the Mets be allowed to re-write his contract for this year to make up for his demand of fewer innings?

I personally don't think this is going in this direction, and I'm a huge DeGrom fan.

I'm just curious as to the hypothetical contractual situation. A pitcher is paid by the team to perform. Unless there is a long-term contract in play, why should the team allow the player to limit his innings if it doesn't benefit them?


Technically, he cannot. It's a moot point.

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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:09 am 
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bklyndave69 wrote:
metsrule0423 wrote:
There's a lesson to be learned here, and deGrom shouldn't get killed by the fans for having learned it.


If this is the direction that we're going, and if he truly believes he should have his innings limited to allow him to get a better paycheck in Free Agency, then should the Mets be allowed to re-write his contract for this year to make up for his demand of fewer innings?

I personally don't think this is going in this direction, and I'm a huge DeGrom fan.

I'm just curious as to the hypothetical contractual situation. A pitcher is paid by the team to perform. Unless there is a long-term contract in play, why should the team allow the player to limit his innings if it doesn't benefit them?


The team has already gotten three absurdly under-market season out of deGrom; I don't think him pitching 180 innings at $17 million is going to tip the scales so far back in the other direction that the team can cry about things being unfair.

This system is so skewed towards the owners that we're probably looking at a strike in a few years. Revenue is at an all-time high and the players are pocketing a lower percentage than they have in a long time. As long as the system is set up like it is, and the owners refuse to invest their record profits back into their organizations, I won't ever judge a player for trying to get every penny they deserve.

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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:02 pm 
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metsrule0423 wrote:
bklyndave69 wrote:
metsrule0423 wrote:
There's a lesson to be learned here, and deGrom shouldn't get killed by the fans for having learned it.


If this is the direction that we're going, and if he truly believes he should have his innings limited to allow him to get a better paycheck in Free Agency, then should the Mets be allowed to re-write his contract for this year to make up for his demand of fewer innings?

I personally don't think this is going in this direction, and I'm a huge DeGrom fan.

I'm just curious as to the hypothetical contractual situation. A pitcher is paid by the team to perform. Unless there is a long-term contract in play, why should the team allow the player to limit his innings if it doesn't benefit them?


The team has already gotten three absurdly under-market season out of deGrom; I don't think him pitching 180 innings at $17 million is going to tip the scales so far back in the other direction that the team can cry about things being unfair.

This system is so skewed towards the owners that we're probably looking at a strike in a few years. Revenue is at an all-time high and the players are pocketing a lower percentage than they have in a long time. As long as the system is set up like it is, and the owners refuse to invest their record profits back into their organizations, I won't ever judge a player for trying to get every penny they deserve.


We're closer than a few years away from a strike. It could happen during this season.

The pay structure in baseball is currently silly for players (but that's sort of most career pay structures). They're abusing players and using up their bodies as much as possible while they're cheap, and then pushing them out the door when they can finally argue for their market value.

Pitchers are very susceptible to this because of arm injuries that develop with too much abuse.

deGrom and other pitchers have every right to say "you've pushed me to my limits, and I've responded, but I won't do that if you aren't going to commit to my career."

deGrom and his agent might be doing something new, but there's nothing wrong with taking steps to ensure that he's healthy enough for his next contract before he has it.

If the Mets want 200+ IP out of deGrom this season, then get rid of the ambiguity and sign him to an extension now.


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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:04 pm 
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The irony of this whole innings nonsense is the team is usually the ones who wuss out on pitch counts and innings limits. Plus it serves nobody if the Mets run Jake into the ground this year anyway while he’s still under control through next year. Next year it’s a different argument but it only comes into play if the Mets are in contention. No team is going to be spiteful enough to pitch a guy 250 innings if the team is 15 games out and if it was ever tried the player and his agent would go into operation phantom DL injury land.


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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:10 pm 
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bklyndave69 wrote:
metsrule0423 wrote:
There's a lesson to be learned here, and deGrom shouldn't get killed by the fans for having learned it.


If this is the direction that we're going, and if he truly believes he should have his innings limited to allow him to get a better paycheck in Free Agency, then should the Mets be allowed to re-write his contract for this year to make up for his demand of fewer innings?

I personally don't think this is going in this direction, and I'm a huge DeGrom fan.

I'm just curious as to the hypothetical contractual situation. A pitcher is paid by the team to perform. Unless there is a long-term contract in play, why should the team allow the player to limit his innings if it doesn't benefit them?


Exactly, I have no sympathy for a player putting himself above the team, unless the Mets were genuinely being abusive toward the player’s arm. If it was his walk year that’d be one thing but the Mets aren’t pitching Jake 250 innnings this year on three days rest. The Steelers situation with Bell I could actually understand that one cause the NFL is a contact sport and Bell was in line for another 350-400 touch season. I’m surprised the rules let him get away with sitting out the whole year but that’s the Steelers problem. And he actually did give up the franchise tag money by sitting out, like you said is Jake giving back a prorated portion of his deal if he shaves a few innings away?


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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:15 pm 
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I know that it's a strange way of thinking, but if I could get deGrom at the exact same price for 3 years or for 5 years, I think I'd prefer the 3 years.

It's a higher salary, but I think 3 productive years is more realistic than 5.


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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:31 pm 
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My issue is this...

The GM and owner both went on record stating they planned on making him an offer in the coming weeks. Whether you want them to extend him or not is besides the point. They said they would. They haven't. DeGrom's agent PRIOR to any of this noted in a memo that limiting innings is one option for players not on long term deals.

DeGrom was asked about it, didn't shoot it down and now people (not all) are suddenly upset with DeGrom or feel differently about DeGrom and THAT is fully on the Mets. Control the narrative. Focus on the 2019 team communicate better with your best player. Really sucks to see a guy we all love suddenly getting dinged over something this. It's pretty clear the entire "controversy" could have been avoided by continued dialogue from the Mets and movement toward at the very least.. an initial offer, or a meeting to begin exchanging numbers. It's been 13 weeks sinde Brodie said there would be an offer in the "coming weeks". I think we'd all be frustrated in DeGrom's shoes.

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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:39 pm 
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Boom.

"Part of the frustration from deGrom's camp stems from the Mets telling them two months ago that an offer would come, and there has been none yet."

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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Metro2007 wrote:
Boom.

"Part of the frustration from deGrom's camp stems from the Mets telling them two months ago that an offer would come, and there has been none yet."

During that period, the market has changed. Doesn't mean the Mets couldn't begin a negotiation of course. I guess they might argue that they are waiting to see what the remaining big FAs sign for.

In either case, it no longer seems a sure thing that the team will offer something close to 5/150, if that was previously expected... at least, I'd be surprised if they did. I think they are prob closer to 4/110M at this stage. But, yeah they should get moving on this. If it drags into the season, it's going to develop some bad feelings.


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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Pushing players out the door? At tens of millions of dollars? Ok


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 Post subject: Re: Martino: DeGrom won't discuss extension post opening day
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:53 pm 
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He saw firsthand what happens when you push too hard...

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