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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:03 pm 
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Exec. VP Baseball Operations

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:45 pm
Posts: 8757
I’m a no for Doc and Straw.

Yes for Wright and Hernandez


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:01 pm 
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Blue Chipper

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:15 am
Posts: 319
This should have happened years ago. As for others, it’s hard to justify retiring anyone who played fewer than 10 years with the Mets.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:24 pm 
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Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
This should have happened years ago. As for others, it’s hard to justify retiring anyone who played fewer than 10 years with the Mets.



You mean like Piazza?


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:18 pm 
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Blue Chipper

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TomInNC wrote:
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
This should have happened years ago. As for others, it’s hard to justify retiring anyone who played fewer than 10 years with the Mets.



You mean like Piazza?


I said it is hard to justify, not impossible. I'm ok with Piazza, but he meant more to the team than just his numbers. Typically, retiring a number for a guy who was only with the team for 5-7 years requires that they do something historic. You can give a player a plaque and enshrine him into the team hall of fame without retiring his number.

And as far as Koos goes, if the team had any offense at all in the 70's his HoF credentials would be as good as lot of guys who are already in there. Its laughable that he had 4 losing seasons posting the numbers that he did. The only thing that Sutton and Mussina had on Koosman were better teams behind them.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:28 pm 
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Quote:
Asked whether the retirement of Koosman's number means the Mets will be retiring other numbers in the future, Wilpon said "we have a plan to catch up."


https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/mets-annou ... /310895326

I wonder if number 5 is retired for both Davey Johnson and David Wright.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 pm 
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Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
This should have happened years ago. As for others, it’s hard to justify retiring anyone who played fewer than 10 years with the Mets.



You mean like Piazza?


I said it is hard to justify, not impossible. I'm ok with Piazza, but he meant more to the team than just his numbers. Typically, retiring a number for a guy who was only with the team for 5-7 years requires that they do something historic. You can give a player a plaque and enshrine him into the team hall of fame without retiring his number.

And as far as Koos goes, if the team had any offense at all in the 70's his HoF credentials would be as good as lot of guys who are already in there. Its laughable that he had 4 losing seasons posting the numbers that he did. The only thing that Sutton and Mussina had on Koosman were better teams behind them.



You don't think Hernandez was as important to the Mets winning a World Series as what other considered players have done for the team? Then add in his "icon" status with the fans and years with the team as a broadcaster?


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Legend of NYFS

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Location: Somebody's stolen my avatar
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
TomInNC wrote:
Kevin From Spotswood wrote:
This should have happened years ago. As for others, it’s hard to justify retiring anyone who played fewer than 10 years with the Mets.



You mean like Piazza?


I said it is hard to justify, not impossible. I'm ok with Piazza, but he meant more to the team than just his numbers. Typically, retiring a number for a guy who was only with the team for 5-7 years requires that they do something historic. You can give a player a plaque and enshrine him into the team hall of fame without retiring his number.

And as far as Koos goes, if the team had any offense at all in the 70's his HoF credentials would be as good as lot of guys who are already in there. Its laughable that he had 4 losing seasons posting the numbers that he did. The only thing that Sutton and Mussina had on Koosman were better teams behind them.


Moose had an 82 career war and 14 3 war seasons.

Sutton had a 66.7 career war and he was boosted by playing for good teams and his 324 wins. He pitched for 23 seasons, well past his prime. Sutton had 9 3-war seasons and 6 more between 2.4 and 2.9. Sutton got votes for cy young 5 times and finished first in the league in WHIP 4 times.

Koos had a 53.6 career war, 8 3 war seasons and 4 more between 2.1 and 2.9, he finished first in FIP once and first in K's per 9 once. He got cy young votes twice.

I think Moose 16 quality seasons in an 18 year career and his 88 WAR puts him in a different category and a lock for the Hall.

Sutton and Koos are close, but the difference there is that Sutton had the longevity to get 300 wins. I agree with you that if Sutton had been a met and gotten 30 fewer wins as a result . . . maybe he doesn't see the Hall. I think Koos is a tough case for the hall no matter what team you put him on.


On the Wilpon "We're catching up" - I'm curous who's going to be next. David Wright is, I think, a lock, but who are the others?

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Nothing is Written. (few know this, but T.E. Lawrence was talking about the 2020 Mets when he said that).


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Exec. VP Baseball Operations

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In order of deserving an honor like this from the Mets:

Wright
Hernandez
Carter
Beltran
Kranepool
Jones
Matlack
Agee
Grote
Every other member of the 69 Mets
The 1986 rotation (less Gooden)
Santana
Orosco
Knight
Cone
The great defensive infield
Delgado
Todd Pratt
Endy
Leiter
Franco
Kingman
Jefferies
McReynolds
Every member of the 1962 team
Strawberry
Craig Swan
Felix Milan
John Maine
Ed Hearn
Roger McDowell
Rickey Henderson
Todd Zeile
Neil Allen
Nolan Ryan
Joe Foy
Jim Fregosi
Gooden


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:15 pm 
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Some entertaining choices there Tom. Joe Foy makes for great storytelling, but there's about 500 mets more deserving.

And Gooden was part of the 86 rotation. :-)

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Nothing is Written. (few know this, but T.E. Lawrence was talking about the 2020 Mets when he said that).


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:08 pm 
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NYFS Staff

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:10 pm
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Location: South Korea
They've sort of semi-retired some numbers already like 8, 17, and 24 (until Cano), so I'd guess maybe those will be near the top of the list, plus Wright.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:27 pm 
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Exec. VP Baseball Operations

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LTKfRGM wrote:
Some entertaining choices there Tom. Joe Foy makes for great storytelling, but there's about 500 mets more deserving.

And Gooden was part of the 86 rotation. :-)


Fixed!


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Koosman's number to be retired
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:20 pm 
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TomInNC wrote:
In order of deserving an honor like this from the Mets:

Wright
Hernandez
Carter
Beltran
Kranepool
Jones
Matlack
Agee
Grote
Every other member of the 69 Mets
The 1986 rotation (less Gooden)
Santana
Orosco
Knight
Cone
The great defensive infield
Delgado
Todd Pratt
Endy
Leiter
Franco
Kingman
Jefferies
McReynolds
Every member of the 1962 team
Strawberry
Craig Swan
Felix Milan
John Maine
Ed Hearn
Roger McDowell
Rickey Henderson
Todd Zeile
Neil Allen
Nolan Ryan
Joe Foy
Jim Fregosi
Gooden



I admit Ed Hearn and Gooden is a flip of the coin but I have to be honest, I think I go with Dwight there.

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MarkJohnson>You wrote:

Yeah, and if you're using the "He's 19" logic, then I guess the best report a scout could give us is:


"I have no idea. He's a teenager. He may go through 5 arm surgeries between now and his 30th birthday. He may add a pitch. He may lose a pitch. He may put on 30 lbs and add velocity. He may put on 50 lbs and eat his way out of the league. I literally have no idea what he is going to be."

But thats not what these guys are paid to do, nor what we are looking for them to do, right?


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