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 Post subject: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Infielders:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/infield- ... =&viz=show

Notes:
-McNeil is a good defender at 2B
-Cano is meh at 2B
-Alonso was bad
-Rosario was too, but he got better by the month
-Guillorme (SS), Davis (3B), and Smith (1B) were all a little bit better than average

Outfielders:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/outs_abo ... 2019&min=0

Notes:

-Davis, Smith, and McNeil are not good outfielders
-Brandon Nimmo is
-Lagares is a little better
-But Conforto is the best (on the Mets)
-Marisnick was even better but not a Met

So the best defensive alignment for the Mets looks like this:

1B: Smith
2B: McNeil
3B: Davis
SS: Guillorme
LF: Nimmo
CF: Marisnick
RF: Conforto

Swap in Alonso and Rosario and you have a lineup that has average defense around the infield and above average in the outfield. Interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:23 pm 
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Metsfan980 wrote:
Infielders:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/infield- ... =&viz=show

Notes:
-McNeil is a good defender at 2B
-Cano is meh at 2B
-Alonso was bad
-Rosario was too, but he got better by the month
-Guillorme (SS), Davis (3B), and Smith (1B) were all a little bit better than average

Outfielders:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/outs_abo ... 2019&min=0

Notes:

-Davis, Smith, and McNeil are not good outfielders
-Brandon Nimmo is
-Lagares is a little better
-But Conforto is the best (on the Mets)
-Marisnick was even better but not a Met

So the best defensive alignment for the Mets looks like this:

1B: Smith
2B: McNeil
3B: Davis
SS: Guillorme
LF: Nimmo
CF: Marisnick
RF: Conforto

Swap in Alonso and Rosario and you have a lineup that has average defense around the infield and above average in the outfield. Interesting.


Have to put Cano in at 2B, which makes McNeil 3B, which brings back to the original question basically of the offseason re: position players - will they actually address a full time CFer, and if not, do they punt offense and play Marisnick aka the Lagares approach they always claim they will do then abandon quickly, vs. playing JDD there for his bat (or do you consider swapping JDD and McNeil at 3B/LF).


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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:29 pm
Posts: 565
Metsfan980 wrote:
Infielders:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/infield- ... =&viz=show

Notes:
-McNeil is a good defender at 2B
-Cano is meh at 2B
-Alonso was bad
-Rosario was too, but he got better by the month
-Guillorme (SS), Davis (3B), and Smith (1B) were all a little bit better than average

Outfielders:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/outs_abo ... 2019&min=0

Notes:

-Davis, Smith, and McNeil are not good outfielders
-Brandon Nimmo is
-Lagares is a little better
-But Conforto is the best (on the Mets)
-Marisnick was even better but not a Met

So the best defensive alignment for the Mets looks like this:

1B: Smith
2B: McNeil
3B: Davis
SS: Guillorme
LF: Nimmo
CF: Marisnick
RF: Conforto

Swap in Alonso and Rosario and you have a lineup that has average defense around the infield and above average in the outfield. Interesting.


For 1B.... I’m not sure how this tool defines the most important defensive metric for 1B.... catching the ball when thrown to them at 1B. I think this is where Alonso has had a lot of improvement. He had some really great stretch catches & catches on a bounce...


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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:02 pm 
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stevereiff wrote:
Metsfan980 wrote:
Infielders:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/infield- ... =&viz=show

Notes:
-McNeil is a good defender at 2B
-Cano is meh at 2B
-Alonso was bad
-Rosario was too, but he got better by the month
-Guillorme (SS), Davis (3B), and Smith (1B) were all a little bit better than average

Outfielders:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/outs_abo ... 2019&min=0

Notes:

-Davis, Smith, and McNeil are not good outfielders
-Brandon Nimmo is
-Lagares is a little better
-But Conforto is the best (on the Mets)
-Marisnick was even better but not a Met

So the best defensive alignment for the Mets looks like this:

1B: Smith
2B: McNeil
3B: Davis
SS: Guillorme
LF: Nimmo
CF: Marisnick
RF: Conforto

Swap in Alonso and Rosario and you have a lineup that has average defense around the infield and above average in the outfield. Interesting.


For 1B.... I’m not sure how this tool defines the most important defensive metric for 1B.... catching the ball when thrown to them at 1B. I think this is where Alonso has had a lot of improvement. He had some really great stretch catches & catches on a bounce...


Is that the most important part of Fielding for a 1B? It's certainly a unique aspect of 1B, but they still have a position to cover, and a bad Fielding 1B means that the 2B needs to shade their way to protect the infield.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:12 am 
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Metsfan980 wrote:

Is that the most important part of Fielding for a 1B? It's certainly a unique aspect of 1B, but they still have a position to cover, and a bad Fielding 1B means that the 2B needs to shade their way to protect the infield.


Catching the ball is most definitely the most important part for a 1B...as it takes place on every ground ball to the infield...

I would love to see a metric on what % of defensive outs were made by a 1B on throws not on target.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:38 am 
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Catching the ball might be the most important thing for any position.

With defense, at a certain level the difference between fielders may be negligible. I’m not sure what level that is on this scale, but I have my own scale, which is pretty unreliable because it’s only in my head, but my scale says Pete is passable at defense.

The most important thing a first baseman can do in the field is get off it without making a butt of himself and then go hit some bombs. Pete has it down.

McNeill is still good for me. Inexperience and injury can explain away any shortcomings. And I think this is where you can be like, ok he may not get SABR points but he’s not that much worse. Or maybe he is.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:55 am 
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this is fascinating.

Seeing someone like Devers, his splits are so drastic...ELITE going to his right, very poor going to his left. Shouldn't that mean to shade Devers more to play the line?

Rosario, very poor going to the SS hole, but pretty good going towards 2B...don't you play him more to the SS hole because he gets to balls better going to 2B?

JD Davis played a DEEP 3B, so it would stand to reason he struggled with balls in front of him.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:09 pm 
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stevereiff wrote:
Metsfan980 wrote:

Is that the most important part of Fielding for a 1B? It's certainly a unique aspect of 1B, but they still have a position to cover, and a bad Fielding 1B means that the 2B needs to shade their way to protect the infield.


Catching the ball is most definitely the most important part for a 1B...as it takes place on every ground ball to the infield...

I would love to see a metric on what % of defensive outs were made by a 1B on throws not on target.


But every 1B should be able to catch and scoop. If they can't, then they shouldn't be playing 1B.

Take a look at the list of 1B:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/infield- ... =&viz=show

Where is Alonso?

Dead last.

Great, he can be a statue at 1B and catch balls thrown to him, but he's not covering ground balls to his right, which means that they either become hits or the second baseman is forced to shade to his left to cover that hole, which then makes a bigger hole up the middle.

Alonso has made it a point that he is continuing to work on his defense, and he's progressed a lot since his minor league scouting reports said "DH in training" for his defense reports, but his range problems are not good for the Mets, especially with a less-than-average defender at 2B.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:21 pm 
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Davis was not a better 3b defender than Fraiser. Todd didn't have a great year with the glove, but davis was far worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:24 pm 
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CrackedCrystalBall wrote:
Davis was not a better 3b defender than Fraiser. Todd didn't have a great year with the glove, but davis was far worse.


Both were average at moving back on balls, and both were good at getting balls to their left (toward SS). Frazier was average at coming in on balls, Davis not so much.

But Frazier was bad at covering the line, and Davis was slightly better than average.

Both were pretty much average, but covering the line appears to make Davis a better fielder at 3B.


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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:35 am 
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Metsfan980 wrote:
CrackedCrystalBall wrote:
Davis was not a better 3b defender than Fraiser. Todd didn't have a great year with the glove, but davis was far worse.


Both were average at moving back on balls, and both were good at getting balls to their left (toward SS). Frazier was average at coming in on balls, Davis not so much.

But Frazier was bad at covering the line, and Davis was slightly better than average.

Both were pretty much average, but covering the line appears to make Davis a better fielder at 3B.


This is why I don't trust defensive statistics. Davis looked pretty bad to me at 3rd. I get why teams want to try to calculate this, but balls have different velocity, and a few inches can make a difference. It's never apples to apples.

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 Post subject: Re: Mets defense using new Savant tool
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:05 am 
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LTKfRGM wrote:
Metsfan980 wrote:
CrackedCrystalBall wrote:
Davis was not a better 3b defender than Fraiser. Todd didn't have a great year with the glove, but davis was far worse.


Both were average at moving back on balls, and both were good at getting balls to their left (toward SS). Frazier was average at coming in on balls, Davis not so much.

But Frazier was bad at covering the line, and Davis was slightly better than average.

Both were pretty much average, but covering the line appears to make Davis a better fielder at 3B.


This is why I don't trust defensive statistics. Davis looked pretty bad to me at 3rd. I get why teams want to try to calculate this, but balls have different velocity, and a few inches can make a difference. It's never apples to apples.


Defensive analytics like this are built off of xy coordinates for where the fielder started, where they caught (or missed) the ball, and how long it took from the ball being hit to the moment that they did or did not interact with the ball in play.

That is then aggregated and put into context of the average fielder at that position for that season.

There is no better way currently to evaluate a player's ability to make plays, and it can help us see that a player that looks sloppy in the field may actually be a lot better than we thought (he still gets to the plays), and a player that looks component in the field may be doing so because he only gets to the easiest plays.


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